PROPERTY INSURANCE 

                                  ASSOCIATION OF LOUISIANA

                                            (PIAL)

                                        BOARD MEETING

                                      FEBRUARY 20, 2008

















                               5555 Hilton Avenue, 3rd Floor

                                   Baton Rouge, Louisiana

                                          1:00 p.m.

















                                                                        2

                      APPEARANCES:

                           CHAIRMAN:

                                Mr. Dennis Cook

                           EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR:

                                Mr. Robert Moorman


                           BOARD MEMBERS:


                           Ms. Clarissa Preston

                           Ms. Martietha Brooks

                           Mr. Bill Lepine

                           Mr. Paul Hagan

                           Mr. Joe O'Connor

                           Mr. Paul Dreher

                           Mr. William Gourgues

                           Mr. Ed O'Brien

                           Mr. Arnold M. Goldberg



                           ALSO PRESENT:

                           Mr. A.J. Herbert 

                           Mr. E.L. "Bubba" Henry
























                                                                        3

                                     ANTI-TRUST PREAMBLE

                      The Property Insurance Association of
                      Louisiana/Louisiana Joint Reinsurance
                      Plan/Louisiana Underwriting Plan strives to
                      conduct all its activities in compliance with
                      the antitrust laws.  The federal antitrust laws
                      prohibit all agreements which unreasonably
                      interfere with free and open competition.  The
                      McCarran-Ferguson Act allows the insurance
                      industry to operate under a limited federal
                      antitrust exemption, subject to insurance
                      regulation by the states.  With the exception
                      of acts of boycotts, coercion and intimidation
                      which are matters saved for federal antitrust
                      enforcement, the states provide for the
                      regulation of insurance and enforcement
                      sanctions.  State regulations are administering
                      the insurance industry in areas such as rates,
                      unfair trade practices, claims practices,
                      solvency, as well as others.

                      The extent of the limited exemption is not well
                      defined and antitrust concerns are serious
                      matters, particularly in the area of pricing. 
                      Price fixing and conspiracies to set prices
                      are, per se, violations of federal antitrust
                      laws.  Other than that, application of the
                      antitrust laws to a particular set of
                      circumstances can be ambiguous.  Therefore,
                      this meeting will err on the side of caution to
                      avoid any chance that you as participants may
                      be subject to prison and/or treble damages. 
                      Most importantly, remember that discussions in
                      violation of antitrust laws are no less
                      punishable if they take place outside of this
                      meeting room.

                      The following subjects will give rise to
                      antitrust problems.  We will not be discussing
                      them as part of any joint activities except as
                      authorized and/or mandated by Louisiana
                      statutes:

                      *    Raising, lowering or stabilizing actual    
                           rates

                      *    Restricting the availability of insurance














                                                                        4

                      *    Allocating markets, territories or         
                           insureds

                      *   Boycotting in any form

                      *   Actual or future prices

                      *   Profit levels

                      *   Credit terms

                      *   Premium costs

                      *    Quoting or not quoting certain classes or  
                           types of risks

                      If any company participating in this meeting
                      were to transact its business with respect to
                      any one of the above topics in a manner similar
                      to a participant who is a competitor, the
                      discussion of that topic at this meeting may be
                      offered as evidence of a conspiracy in
                      violation of the antitrust laws.









































                                                                        5

          1                               *****

          2          MR. COOK:

          3                   I am going to call the meeting  

          4              to order.  I am going to need a

          5              motion to go ahead and -- do you want

          6              to -- 

          7          MR. HERBERT:

          8                   Can we get a motion, please, to

          9              go out of order on the Agenda, so

         10              that we can seat the new Board

         11              Members, so that we have our quorum?

         12          MR. O'CONNOR:

         13                   So moved.

         14          MR. LEPINE:

         15                   Second.

         16          MR. COOK:

         17                   Any opposed?

         18                   (No response.)

         19          MR. COOK:

         20                   Our first piece of business is 

         21              we are going to fill our open

         22              positions.  Our new appointments   

         23              are Senator Donald Cravins, who is

         24              the Senate Insurance Committee

         25              Chairman and Chuck Kleckey is the













                                                                        6

          1              House Insurance Committee Chairman.

          2                   Also, the Commissioner has two

          3              appointments, Mr. Ed O'Brien and Mr.

          4              Arnold Goldberg.  Now, I would assume

          5              that is Mr. Goldberg?

          6          MR. GOLDBERG:

          7                   That's me.

          8          MR. COOK:

          9                   So, do we have --

         10          MR. HERBERT:

         11                   Do we have a motion to adopt the

         12              whole slate of new appointments?

         13          MR. O'CONNOR:

         14                   I'll move.

         15          MR. COOK:

         16                   Moved by Joe.

         17          MR. LEPINE:

         18                   I'll second.

         19          MR. COOK:

         20                   Second.  Okay.

         21                   Anybody opposed?

         22                   (No response.)

         23          MR. COOK:

         24                   Welcome, Guys, appreciate it.

         25                   (Off-the-record discussion.)













                                                                        7

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   I will note for Mr. Goldberg,

          3              previously Christine -- well, it  

          4              was Christine Berry, who held that

          5              appointment to the Board as a

          6              designee of the Louisiana Insurance

          7              Rating Commission, but that being

          8              abolished, that appointment reverted

          9              to the Commissioner.  So, Mr.

         10              Goldberg is the Commissioner's

         11              appointment to this Board.

         12                   (Off-the-record discussion.)

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   Moving on, we are going to --  

         15              we need to ratify our previous   

         16              Board meeting.  It was E-mailed     

         17              to everybody.  I'm sure everybody  

         18              has had a chance to look over     

         19              it.

         20                   Do we have a motion to accept

         21              those minutes?

         22          MR. LEPINE:

         23                   I'll move.

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Moved.













                                                                        8

          1                   Second?

          2          MR. O'CONNOR:

          3                   Second.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   All right.  Anyone opposed?

          6                   (No response.)

          7          MR. COOK:

          8                   That moves on.

          9                   Moving on, Executive Director.

         10          MR. HERBERT:

         11                   Well, we could do that in

         12              Executive Session, but there's no   

         13              one here who would have to leave   

         14              in Executive Session.  So, at the

         15              last Board meeting, we talked about

         16              the fact that Mr. Joe Deutsch had

         17              resigned as Executive Director of

         18              PIAL.  I think he left February   

         19              1st.

         20                   We looked around and found     

         21              Mr. Robert Moorman, who is a CPA in

         22              Texas and he agreed that he would

         23              come in and serve as the Executive

         24              Director on a contract basis and he

         25              has actually been functioning at PIAL













                                                                        9

          1              for about the past two weeks.

          2                   At the previous Board meeting, we

          3              circulated his resume.  The Board at

          4              that time felt it was important for

          5              him to get started right away.  

          6                   What I think would be appropriate

          7              is, Bob, why don't you tell the Board

          8              a few things about yourself.  Then,

          9              excuse yourself from the meeting and

         10              we can talk about stuff behind your

         11              back.

         12          MR. MOORMAN:

         13                   I have actually been on site over

         14              there since last week.  So, it's

         15              about four or five actual days.  I am

         16              a CPA.  I have been -- I have a

         17              background in the insurance industry

         18              and have been in the industry since

         19              1976 and a little bit before that.  I

         20              started with Prudential Insurance and

         21              went to a small malpractice writer

         22              and was Chief Operating Officer and

         23              Chief Financial Officer of that group

         24              for a six year period while we were

         25              expanding throughout the United













                                                                       10

          1              States.

          2                   I left there and I have been

          3              doing a consulting practice since

          4              1972 -- 1982 in Texas for primarily

          5              small carriers, some large ones,

          6              doing anything regulatory, annual

          7              statement, accounting, investments,

          8              the whole deal for property casualty

          9              companies.

         10                   I have done some litigation

         11              support work both in the industry and

         12              outside of the industry.  I worked

         13              with A.J. before when I was an on

         14              site liquidator for the Louisiana

         15              department of a Louisiana chartered

         16              company that happened to be domiciled

         17              in Houston and needed to be put to

         18              sleep.  So, I presided over that and

         19              the disposition of the assets and

         20              liabilities and so forth working with

         21              A.J. on that back in the '90s and I

         22              have, on a number of occasions,

         23              worked with failed or failing P&C

         24              companies, cleaning them up, catching

         25              them up, that sort of thing.













                                                                       11

          1                   I mention that, because it is --

          2              in some ways, there is a similar

          3              situation and that is the -- things

          4              are in a flux and the employees are a

          5              little disconcerted about what is

          6              going on and we have some basic

          7              decisions to make about how to

          8              organize things and proceed.  So, I

          9              think it -- I do have pertinent

         10              experience to that having done that a

         11              number of times.

         12                   So, I have been in the industry

         13              for thirty plus years in --

         14              primarily, in Texas.

         15          MR. HERBERT:

         16                   We had -- at the previous Board

         17              meeting, there was discussion about

         18              whether or not to engage Mr. Moorman

         19              as an employee or as a contractor and

         20              given some of the uncertainties about

         21              PIAL as it goes through this

         22              Legislative Session, Warren Byrd,

         23              another one of the Commissioner's

         24              designees, suggested that we just

         25              engage Mr. Moorman on a contract













                                                                       12

          1              basis for -- at least through the

          2              Session, and then, we will go from

          3              there.  

          4                   He has agreed to do that at an

          5              hourly rate.  The hourly rate is a

          6              hundred and ten dollars an hour.  He

          7              will bear his own expenses in

          8              commuting between Houston and New

          9              Orleans.  He will be reimbursed for

         10              his commuting between New Orleans and

         11              Baton Rouge for Legislative purposes

         12              and he will bear his own expenses for

         13              living arrangements while he is in

         14              New Orleans.

         15                   So, we will, you know, put

         16              together a contract for him should

         17              the Board decide to proceed with the

         18              engagement.  What I would suggest is

         19              that if anyone has any questions that

         20              they want to ask Mr. Moorman

         21              directly, do so now, and then, we can

         22              excuse him from the room and the

         23              Board can debate it.  

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   I will say one other thing   













                                                                       13

          1              before I step out.  I do ask that  

          2              the Board, in some fashion, indemnify

          3              me for acts within the course and

          4              scope of the duties, so that I don't

          5              have to answer what might be

          6              frivolous lawsuits or other lawsuits

          7              for the next several years from, you

          8              know, three hundred and fifty miles

          9              away and some indemnification for

         10              that under defense costs, certainly

         11              not for anything out of the scope of

         12              the --

         13          MR. HERBERT:

         14                   That provision is for employees,

         15              but you not being an employee, it

         16              would be provided for in your

         17              contract.

         18                   (Off-the-record discussion.)

         19          MR. HERBERT:

         20                   Now, we are back on the    

         21              record and if anyone wants to make a

         22              motion.

         23          MR. COOK:

         24                   Do you want to call him in or

         25              make the motion first?













                                                                       14

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   It doesn't matter.

          3          MR. COOK:

          4                   Do I have a motion to accept

          5              hiring Bob Moorman on a contract

          6              basis?

          7          MR. O'CONNOR:

          8                   I'll move.

          9          MR. COOK:

         10                   Moved by Joe.

         11          MR. LEPINE:

         12                   Second.

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   Any opposed?

         15                   (No response.)

         16          MR. COOK:

         17                   All right.

         18          MR. HERBERT:

         19                   Tag, you're it.

         20          MR. MOORMAN:

         21                   I guess that's good.

         22          MR. COOK:

         23                   Congratulations.  It was

         24              unanimous.

         25                   Just -- since Clarissa is not













                                                                       15

          1              here, I did -- under "Board

          2              Composition", we do have some open

          3              positions.  

          4                   Ed, since this is something   

          5              that -- I think it would fall    

          6              under the Department of Insurance,

          7              A.J.?

          8          MR. HERBERT:

          9                   Yes.

         10                   The Property and Casualty

         11              Commission, Ed, are you familiar with

         12              this creature, yet?

         13          MR. O'BRIEN:

         14                   Yes.

         15          MR. HERBERT:

         16                   PIAL has an appointee to the

         17              Property and Casualty Insurance

         18              Commission.

         19          MR. O'BRIEN:

         20                   Correct.

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   Well, hold on.  I was talking

         23              about our open position.

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   Filling this Board.













                                                                       16

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   I thought we did that.

          3          MR. O'CONNOR:

          4                   Yes.  We have two vacant

          5              positions.

          6          MR. COOK:

          7                   We still have companies --

          8          MR. HERBERT:

          9                   Oh, yes, I'm sorry.  I'm sorry.

         10                   There are still some open

         11              positions on the companies and we --

         12          MR. COOK:

         13                   Hold on, Clarissa is walking   

         14              in.

         15          MR. HERBERT:

         16                   Oh.

         17          MS. PRESTON:

         18                   What part are you on?

         19          MR. COOK:

         20                   We are on the open positions for

         21              company representatives.

         22          MS. PRESTON:

         23                   Okay.

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Did we do any research on that,













                                                                       17

          1              is that something that is going to --

          2              Ed can do now or -- 

          3          MS. PRESTON:

          4                   The Department was really   

          5              hoping to not necessarily make

          6              recommendations, but to give contact

          7              information and we gave you the list

          8              of the top twenty -- 

          9          MR. HERBERT:

         10                   Companies, but we need to know

         11              the contact people to call to get

         12              them to appoint someone.

         13          MS. PRESTON:

         14                   Any of them in particular, I can

         15              do that for you.

         16          MR. HERBERT:

         17                   Is there-- 

         18          MS. PRESTON:

         19                   I just can't make the call.

         20          MR. HERBERT:

         21                   Okay.

         22                   In terms of providing the contact

         23              info, is that you or Ed?

         24          MS. PRESTON:

         25                   I probably would have most of













                                                                       18

          1              them more than Ed would and if I'm

          2              not there, you know my assistant,

          3              Janaya (phonetic) is there and I will

          4              let her know.  If you just send a

          5              list of the companies that you want

          6              to get to, I can get you that contact

          7              information.

          8          MR. HERBERT:

          9                   Okay.

         10          MR. COOK:

         11                   Now, we will move on to the

         12              appointment to the Louisiana Property

         13              and Casualty Commission.

         14                   The Commission's office has  

         15              sent us a letter requesting that   

         16              we appoint somebody to this.  Joe  

         17              was appointed before and being that

         18              Mr. Moorman is a Texas resident, he

         19              wouldn't qualify for it.

         20          MR. HERBERT:

         21                   If I can correct that, we  

         22              checked and there's no residency

         23              requirement --

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Okay.













                                                                       19

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   -- for the Property and Casualty

          3              Commission.  

          4                   So, if -- previously, I think   

          5              Joe was the appointee, but the   

          6              Board does need to make an

          7              appointment from PIAL to the P&C

          8              Commission.

          9                   You said you are too busy.

         10                   Bob, will you --

         11          MR. MOORMAN:

         12                   I will defer to the wisdom of the

         13              Board.

         14          MR. COOK:

         15                   Does anybody want to accept the

         16              position?

         17          MR. MOORMAN:

         18                   I'll certainly accept it.

         19          MS. PRESTON:

         20                   Speaking of that, there is

         21              actually a meeting tomorrow -- 

         22          MR. HERBERT:

         23                   Tomorrow at 1:30.

         24          MS. PRESTON:

         25                   -- at 1:30.













                                                                       20

          1          MR. MOORMAN:

          2                   I tell you, I have -- if I  

          3              could get appointed after that.   

          4              John Wortman has called a companywide

          5              employee meeting tomorrow and  I

          6              think I need to appear at that at

          7              1:30, but again, y'all tell me what

          8              the priorities should be.

          9          MR. HENRY:

         10                   Well, could I offer this?     

         11              The meeting will be well covered

         12              tomorrow by folks and I don't know

         13              that there is anything on the   

         14              Agenda that is of such a magnitude

         15              that you would have to be there.

         16                   Going forward, I would also    

         17              like to say, if you are going to

         18              serve, I noticed at the last   

         19              meeting, the Chairman came up with

         20              the notion of having some around   

         21              the State meetings for this outfit

         22              and I personally think that is  

         23              highly ridiculous and I told the

         24              Commissioner that.  It makes it

         25              awfully inconvenient and I have   













                                                                       21

          1              asked him if he would to use the

          2              influence of his office to slow that

          3              down, because it -- Baton Rouge,

          4              whether people like it or not, is   

          5              the center of Government for this

          6              State and we ought to go out in the

          7              Netherlends (phonetic), but that just

          8              gets to be a circus and it gets to be

          9              expensive, I have always found.

         10                   So, if you are going to serve  

         11              on that, I wish you would sort of

         12              approach it with that in mind,

         13              because you are going to have people,

         14              anyway.  It is not a good idea,

         15              generally speaking, to have meetings

         16              like that around the State unless

         17              there is some defined purpose for it,

         18              I have found.  That is just my

         19              thinking.

         20                   Clarissa is -- some of you older

         21              people, I'm talking to you.

         22          MR. O'BRIEN:

         23                   Me?

         24          MR. HENRY:

         25                   Yes.













                                                                       22

          1          MR. O'BRIEN:

          2                   When you say older, I looked at

          3              you.  I thought you were looking at

          4              Joe. 

          5          MR. HENRY:

          6                    That is just an observation.

          7          MR. O'BRIEN:

          8                   That is an astute observation.

          9                   The meeting tomorrow generally is

         10              going to be to review the

         11              Commissioner's Legislative Agenda and

         12              there is -- the last I heard late

         13              yesterday afternoon, there was a

         14              quorum.  So, we are planning on going

         15              ahead whether or not PIAL has an

         16              appointed designee or not.  

         17          MR. HENRY:

         18                   But, there will be -- 

         19          MR. O'BRIEN:

         20                   Right.

         21          MR. HENRY:

         22                   -- there will be some -- if  

         23              this is any consolation to you, you

         24              won't vote or anything, but there

         25              will be somebody covering it from my













                                                                       23

          1              office, because I always have

          2              somebody go.  I don't go myself,

          3              because it lowers my IQ any time I

          4              go.  I can't stand that --

          5          MR. MOORMAN:

          6                   It might raise mine, at least as far

          7              as -- 

          8          MR. HENRY:

          9                   No.

         10          MR. O'BRIEN:

         11                   No.  No.

         12          MR. MOORMAN:

         13                   But, I do think this meeting I

         14              have there at PIAL is fairly crucial

         15              this first week on the job. 

         16          MR. HERBERT:

         17                   Can I suggest that the Board go  

         18              ahead and appoint Bob as its designee   

         19              to that Board, but just understand that  

         20              he can't be in attendance tomorrow since

         21              we --

         22          MS. PRESTON:

         23                   Ed and I will be there.

         24          MR. O'BRIEN:

         25                   We'll both be there.













                                                                       24

          1          MR. MOORMAN:

          2                   Or maybe make it effective day

          3              after tomorrow, however you --

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   I'm sure we will all see it in

          6              the Commissioner's package before it

          7              is all said and done.

          8                   So, do I have a motion to   

          9              appoint Mr. Moorman to the   

         10              Louisiana Property and Casualty

         11              Commission?  

         12                   Does somebody move?

         13          MR. LEPINE:

         14                   Moved.

         15          MR. COOK:

         16                   Do I have a second?

         17          MS. BROOKS:

         18                   Second.

         19          MR. COOK:

         20                   All right.  Anyone opposed?

         21                   (No response.)

         22          MR. COOK:

         23                   We will be keeping you busy.

         24                   Next on the Agenda is formation

         25              of committees.  













                                                                       25

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   There are two committees that I

          3              thought we might ask to be formed. 

          4              The first one is, PIAL has never had

          5              an Audit Committee and I do think it

          6              is important that we go ahead and

          7              establish one first just for general

          8              business purposes.  I think it is

          9              important to have one of those.

         10                   Secondly, much more specific, we

         11              have had incredible issues come up in

         12              connection with PIAL's prior audit

         13              and, you know, I wonder whether some

         14              of that stuff could have been

         15              corrected if there were more eyes

         16              looking at it way back when.  So, I

         17              was hoping that we could form a

         18              committee of the PIAL Board, just two

         19              or three members who are experienced

         20              in review of accounting or financial

         21              analysis.

         22                   I don't think it is something

         23              that is going to create a great

         24              burden on your time, but I do think

         25              it is important that we have this to













                                                                       26

          1              show that PIAL is adopting practices

          2              to prevent some of the things that

          3              have dogged us in the past.

          4                   Can we start by having a motion

          5              to form an Audit Committee?

          6          MS. PRESTON:

          7                   I move.

          8          MS. BROOKS:

          9                   Second.

         10          MR. COOK:

         11                   Anyone opposed to that?

         12                   Now, the hard part.  Who wants to

         13              serve on that?

         14                   (Off-the-record discussion.)

         15          MR. O'CONNOR:

         16                   I will serve on it.

         17          MR. HERBERT:

         18                   Thank you.

         19          MR. O'BRIEN:

         20                   I can serve on it.

         21          MR. HERBERT:

         22                   That's great.

         23                   Could we have one more just to --

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   I'll do -- we are in New Orleans













                                                                       27

          1              and I will serve on it --

          2          MR. HERBERT:

          3                   Okay.  Great.  Now, we've got three.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   -- because, we can meet in New

          6              Orleans.

          7          MR. MOORMAN:

          8                   Am I member of this Board?

          9          MR. HERBERT:

         10                   No, you are not.

         11          MR. MOORMAN:

         12                   Then, I won't vote.

         13          MR. HERBERT:

         14                   Correct.

         15                   The second thing is, there is

         16              going to be -- PIAL will be a subject

         17              of legislation this Session.  That is

         18              likely to get shaped a fair amount. 

         19              This started with, I guess, the

         20              Commissioner announcing maybe four or

         21              five months ago that it was his

         22              intention to introduce legislation to

         23              abolish PIAL, but since that time,

         24              PIAL has implemented a lot of steps

         25              to correct the problems that got us













                                                                       28

          1              in the news and new procedures have

          2              been put in place.

          3                   We have terminated the agreement

          4              with LAIP.  We are in the process of

          5              separating from Citizens and that

          6              process should be complete by the end

          7              of the first quarter.  

          8                   So, there has been some sentiment

          9              that PIAL should just get out of

         10              doing those things that it wasn't

         11              formed to do and get back to doing

         12              those things that it has been doing

         13              for a hundred and twenty years, which

         14              is the fire side.

         15                   The Fire Chiefs have apparently

         16              weighed in with that as being in

         17              favor of keeping PIAL as an ongoing

         18              entity back -- going back to its

         19              original purpose.  Bubba and I were

         20              in a House Insurance Committee

         21              meeting this morning and there was

         22              sentiment on that committee to --   

         23              of not throwing the baby out with  

         24              the bath water and to take a serious

         25              look at maintaining PIAL, but only to













                                                                       29

          1              do what it was set up to do and not

          2              the other things that it started to

          3              do like manage residual plans and

          4              things like that that led to the

          5              problems.

          6                   The bottom line to all of that

          7              is, I'm sure Bubba can describe it so

          8              much better, but the legislative

          9              process will be fluid and there won't

         10              be a lot of time for us to wait to

         11              have a monthly Board meeting to get

         12              some feedback.

         13                   The folks from the D.O.I. that

         14              are on the Board, they are usually in

         15              these same meetings, but we would

         16              like to have some industry

         17              representation available that we can

         18              go to quickly and say, "Look, you

         19              know, this proposal is being made,

         20              what is the industry response to it?" 

         21              We are going to need to be able to go

         22              to get some feedback.

         23                   So, I was hoping that we could

         24              get, you know, one or two members

         25              from the insurance industry side   













                                                                       30

          1              and one or two members from the

          2              agents' side that we could consult

          3              with quickly as we go through the

          4              process. 

          5                   Bubba, is there anything you want

          6              to add to that?

          7          MR. HENRY:

          8                   No, and I think your points are

          9              well made.  We have some thoughts on

         10              this and we have advanced those

         11              thoughts with regard to shaping the

         12              legislation, so that PIAL can do what

         13              PIAL was required to do and it won't

         14              take much fooling with the current

         15              enabling legislation, but we know --

         16              we met with the Commissioner and we

         17              know where the Commissioner is.  

         18                   The Commissioner even agreed with

         19              us that we ought not to abolish it

         20              right now, but he has some concerns

         21              about the rating situation, but I

         22              think the more he finds out, maybe --

         23              and I think the more Legislators talk

         24              about this, there is a bigger

         25              opposition to abolishing the PIAL,













                                                                       31

          1              period, than I would have thought and

          2              there is going to be legislation to

          3              keep it from going away.

          4                   So, we need to be in a position

          5              to do what you want us to do and we

          6              need -- we will need somebody to

          7              bounce the notions off just to keep

          8              you apprised of what is going on and

          9              letting you know what we think, so if

         10              we think it wrong, you can tell us

         11              during the Session.

         12          MR. COOK:

         13                   Bubba, you -- I'm sure you are

         14              going to get State Farm's perspective

         15              on where they stand with it.

         16          MR. HENRY:

         17                   I would assume, yes.

         18          MR. COOK:

         19                   Then, at the same time, both of

         20              our organizations have lobbyists and

         21              one-half of those work in the office

         22              are ours.  So, I'm sure the Board, we

         23              would -- we always have a

         24              Governmental Affairs Committee and

         25              I'm sure that we review all bills and













                                                                       32

          1              we can have our lobbyists get with

          2              you to see what our position is.

          3          MR. HENRY:

          4                   Okay.  That's good.

          5          MR. COOK:

          6                   So, that is the agents' side.  As far

          7              as the company side, we can get a couple

          8              more people --

          9          MR. HERBERT:

         10                   Well, I guess what I hear you

         11              saying is that we may not need that

         12              committee.

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   Well, I mean, we are going to

         15              give them the agents' -- we could

         16              give -- me and Joe could give them

         17              the -- go back to our Boards and have

         18              them -- we are going to look at all

         19              of the Bills that have to do with

         20              insurance and we will give them our 

         21              -- we will get with Bubba and tell

         22              him our position, but as far as some

         23              of the companies, I think some of the

         24              companies need to get with Bubba and

         25              have a feeling of what their













                                                                       33

          1              perspective is.

          2          MR. LEPINE:

          3                   I volunteer.

          4          MS. BROOKS:

          5                   I would like to. 

          6          MR. O'BRIEN:

          7                   We need more than one.

          8          MR. COOK:

          9                   So, I'm still thinking we are

         10              going to have a committee, but it is

         11              not for me and Joe to make a decision

         12              for our group.

         13          MR. HERBERT:

         14                   Okay.  That's fine.

         15          MR. O'CONNOR:

         16                   We've got lobbyists that are

         17              there, too.

         18          MR. HERBERT:

         19                   Great.  Okay.

         20                   Bob?

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   We have an update from our new

         23              Executive Director.

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   Well, I don't -- the 2006 audit













                                                                       34

          1              update, I have to apologize.  I don't

          2              have any knowledge of that at this

          3              point.  I think we do have an

          4              engagement letter.

          5          MR. HERBERT:

          6                   That is for the 2007 audit.  I

          7              can tell you that the 2006 audit is

          8              in process and they think that they

          9              will have it complete fairly soon. 

         10              The issues remain that the issue

         11              about -- there is a significant

         12              amount of restating of the financials

         13              that needs to be done, because things

         14              were recorded as assets of PIAL that

         15              frankly were paid for by Citizens and

         16              should not have been assets on PIAL's

         17              books.  There has been a fair amount

         18              of clean up associated with that.

         19                   We do need to go ahead and get

         20              started, though, on the 2007 audit. 

         21              We would propose to use the same firm

         22              that was used for the 2006 audit. 

         23              They have now come up to speed on

         24              PIAL and what the issues are and they

         25              are probably in the best position and













                                                                       35

          1              least cost option to do that instead

          2              of re-educating someone else.

          3                   The name of the firm is Paillet,

          4              Meunier (phonetic).  They are on the

          5              approved list by the Legislative

          6              Auditor and the Legislative Auditor

          7              did approve their engagement for

          8              2006.  So, I think it would be

          9              probably the most cost efficient

         10              thing to proceed with them for the

         11              2007 audit.

         12                   Could we get a motion to approve

         13              that engagement?

         14          MR. HAGAN:

         15                   Moved.

         16          MR. COOK:

         17                   Paul.

         18                   Do we have a second?

         19          MR. O'CONNOR:

         20                   I'll second.

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   Any opposed?

         23                   (No response.)

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Thank you.













                                                                       36

          1          MR. MOORMAN:

          2                   The next thing that I haven't had

          3              an opportunity to look at yet is the

          4              budget and financials.

          5          MR. HERBERT:

          6                   I don't think that they prepared

          7              -- did they?

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   I thought we had a packet    

         10              included.

         11                   We have received a substantial

         12              amount -- I thought we had a packet

         13              included, but perhaps not.  I have

         14              spent a few minutes with the budget

         15              as I found it.  I haven't spent any

         16              time with the back up.  I am not

         17              intending, by the way, to be the

         18              Organization's accountant.  We do

         19              have an accountant, Don Bourgeois,

         20              who is working two days a week

         21              primarily bringing forward some Fair

         22              and Coastal reconciliations from the

         23              old days and I'm not familiar with

         24              exactly what that is, but he is doing

         25              basic budget and accounting work, and













                                                                       37

          1              then, Patricia Ginn, who is on the --

          2              an employee in the office is

          3              preparing the general operating

          4              expenses.

          5                   I do have a balance sheet that

          6              shows -- and I'm sorry, I thought we

          7              had copies for everyone.  You can

          8              certainly pass this around.  It shows

          9              thirty-one million dollars in assets

         10              and the last one I had seen just two

         11              or three weeks ago was a couple

         12              million bucks in the bank.  So, we

         13              have collected a substantial part of

         14              the assessments now just in this

         15              first month, although I'm not sure

         16              what makes up that thirty-one million

         17              dollars, but I understand we have

         18              quite a large balance.

         19                   I have on my agenda now that I am

         20              appointed to get together with the Whitney

         21              Bank folks who are investing the money and

         22              make sure to make contact with them and

         23              bring to the Board anything I see there or

         24              recommendations, but I understand there is

         25              an investment program in place.  I believe













                                                                       38

          1              it is in -- the money is in Jennie Mae's

          2              at this point, government backed

          3              securities and cash.  

          4                   I do note that there is a

          5              substantial amount of cash in

          6              essentially one bank and that is

          7              something maybe to be looked at in

          8              terms of diversification given the

          9              shake up in the banking system that

         10              may or may not develop and maybe look

         11              at the investments, but just to

         12              report that the assessments

         13              apparently are coming in or have come

         14              in, in large percentage for this

         15              year.

         16                   I do have some things I need    

         17              to understand from the Board in   

         18              order to operate the office.  I  

         19              have a stack of expenses, bills,   

         20              to pay.  Checks have been prepared

         21              and they are in the normal course  

         22              of business, but some of the   

         23              amounts are three, four, five

         24              thousand dollars for workers' comp,

         25              for other types of insurance













                                                                       39

          1              coverages, that sort of thing, and  

          2              I don't know anything about levels  

          3              of authority.  We have set up

          4              signature authority.  

          5                   So, I guess I would ask the Board

          6              to, in some form, say grace on my

          7              authorizing payments that are not

          8              just in the normal course of

          9              business, but also in the normal

         10              course of what the practice has  

         11              been.  So, you know, nothing

         12              particularly unusual at this point  

         13              is what I'm saying.  So, we can  

         14              just go ahead and get the checks

         15              signed and sent out.

         16                   One of the items of particular

         17              interest is a six hundred and twenty-

         18              seven thousand dollar bill from

         19              Insurance Services Office, which is 

         20              to be paid in four installments, one

         21              which is due February 15th, but I'm

         22              assured there's no big hurry on that,

         23              but this is a normal billing and it

         24              is for the -- my understanding the

         25              rates and forms that are produced by













                                                                       40

          1              ISO on behalf of PIAL and it is a --

          2              the amount I have looked back for

          3              four years is roughly consistent with

          4              what the billings have been for the

          5              last four years.  So, I would want to

          6              go ahead and make that hundred and

          7              fifty-six thousand, I think, payment

          8              on the first of those.  I will give

          9              you the exact amount, but again, it

         10              is in the normal course of business

         11              and -- I don't seem to find my

         12              folder.

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   We did approve the 2008 budget. 

         15              Was that in the budget?

         16          MR. MOORMAN:

         17                   I assume it is in the budget,       

         18              but -- 

         19          MR. LEPINE:

         20                   I thought it was.

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   Do you have a copy of the 2008

         23              budget?

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   I do have.  Unfortunately, it













                                                                       41

          1              doesn't -- the copy I have, I don't

          2              have all of the back up.  So, I'm not

          3              sure what exactly -- I do have a line

          4              item here that inspection fees-plans,

          5              a million six, but this is only six

          6              hundred thousand.  I just have not

          7              had time at this point to look at the

          8              details, but I do have the billing

          9              here.  

         10                   It is six-twenty-seven-five-

         11              seventy-two paid quarterly and it is

         12              for commercial and dwelling service

         13              at a hundred percent full service

         14              level as you have received in past

         15              years and an additional three

         16              thousand for building code

         17              effectiveness (phonetic) grading

         18              schedule.

         19                   So, it is a standard billing,  

         20              if anyone would care to look at it,

         21              and I did look at the prior year's

         22              allocations on it.  I will have    

         23              one issue to look at on that and  

         24              that is whether we are properly

         25              assessing Citizens for reimbursement,













                                                                       42

          1              but the custom has been for PIAL to

          2              pay this.

          3                   In looking back, there was a

          4              fairly decent allocation to Citizens

          5              back in '04, but then the allocation

          6              seems to have gotten substantially

          7              smaller over the last couple of

          8              years.  So, I would want to look back

          9              at that to see if there is a change

         10              to be made there, but the amount of

         11              the assessment has gone from two-

         12              sixty-two to two-seventy-four to two-

         13              fifty to two-seventy-seven, and then,

         14              this year -- excuse me, I need to

         15              round all of those numbers up, into

         16              the mid three hundreds, and then,

         17              this year, it looks like six hundred. 

         18              So, I can't speak to the difference.

         19                   I did call ISO and it is the

         20              normal billing.  I'm afraid this

         21              Board may have caught me a little

         22              ahead, but I would recommend that   

         23              we pay this quarterly installment

         24              certainly dealing with ISO.  If   

         25              there was anything to be recovered,













                                                                       43

          1              there wouldn't be any problem doing

          2              that.  Certainly, you could recover

          3              it against the subsequent quarterly

          4              payments.

          5                   So, I guess that is --

          6          MR. COOK:

          7                   We don't need a motion for that.

          8          MR. HERBERT:

          9                   No.  No.

         10          MR. MOORMAN:

         11                   I'm certain this is in the

         12              budget.

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   Yes.

         15          MR. MOORMAN:

         16                   I think I would be safe in

         17              assuming that these other insurance

         18              payments, utilities, postage, such as

         19              that -- just to put you at ease, I am

         20              not a spender.  Having said that, I

         21              am not Joe Deutsch either . I don't

         22              know if -- how much time you spent

         23              with Joe, but I -- from what I have

         24              seen so far, he was too far on the

         25              opposite way.  I do believe in doing













                                                                       44

          1              what is necessary to make a business

          2              function, but you won't be getting

          3              expense reports from me that you will

          4              wonder about or anything like that. 

          5              I probably won't turn anything more

          6              than fifty dollars in the whole time

          7              I am here for mileage or something,

          8              nor will you wonder about the

          9              expenditures in the office.  It just

         10              won't be an issue.  I am not a

         11              spender or a wasteful guy.

         12                   I just want to bring these --    

         13              I would like to be able to go ahead

         14              and pay these bills that were

         15              presented to me and get that down    

         16              the road, and then, in the next

         17              cycle, look a little more closely   

         18              at them if the Board is comfortable

         19              with that.

         20          MR. HERBERT:

         21                   I think that the practice has

         22              been that budgeted items, the budget

         23              is approved by the Board and the

         24              expenses are in the normal course of

         25              business and they are paid.  Now,













                                                                       45

          1              like when it is time to re-up on the

          2              insurance, that would come back to

          3              the Board.  If there is a new lease,

          4              that would come back to the Board,

          5              but once approved, it has not been

          6              the practice that you come back every

          7              month with a stack of bills before

          8              you pay them if they are in the

          9              ordinary course.

         10          MR. MOORMAN:

         11                   My only point here is that I can't

         12              swear up and down these are in the budget,

         13              but they are reasonable and fairly small

         14              expenses and I feel certain they should be

         15              if they are not. 

         16                   So, I would just go ahead and --

         17              I don't guess I really need anything

         18              from the Board, but I just wanted to

         19              let the Board know that I would be

         20              doing that.

         21                   If I still have the floor, if  

         22              you will indulge me a little bit, I

         23              will give you my sense of where the

         24              organization is and it is a very  

         25              top end analysis at this point.  I













                                                                       46

          1              have spent some time with the

          2              employees.  I have had the -- this  

          3              is the -- we have twenty to twenty-

          4              five staff who will stay with PIAL. 

          5              About half of those are in the field,

          6              about ten, I guess, and a dozen in my

          7              office and I met for over an hour

          8              with four, five, six of them and met

          9              the others.

         10                   I have a sense for where they

         11              stand and that is that you have some

         12              really committed folks who really

         13              like what they are doing, but they

         14              just -- they are in shock and have

         15              been.  They -- it is like they have

         16              had their legs cut out from under

         17              them and they don't know what is

         18              going on and they have just been

         19              patiently waiting for the hammer to

         20              drop on this thing.

         21                   I was obviously not party to   

         22              how this has progressed, but my

         23              understanding is that the Citizens

         24              side never talked to these folks.   

         25              No one has talked to them about where













                                                                       47

          1              they are going to go or what they are

          2              going to be doing.  The Citizens

          3              folks that picked who they wanted to

          4              take from PIAL's organization

          5              basically and talked to them, but

          6              never spoke to the folks that were

          7              going to remain, never offered them

          8              anything with Citizens, never talked

          9              to them about it.

         10                   So, they were walking on egg

         11              shells when I walked in and when they

         12              just found out I was a normal person,

         13              they were greatly relieved.  

         14                   The next thing we did was started

         15              talking about the separation and I had a

         16              conversation with A.J. and he said,

         17              "Remember, you are not separated", but, in

         18              fact, defacto the separation has occurred. 

         19              There are these folks that are PIAL

         20              employees and they know clearly who they

         21              are and there are these others who are

         22              Citizens employees and they know clearly

         23              who they are and there is a Chinese wall

         24              between them or an invisible wall. 

         25              Communication has broken down.  It is just













                                                                       48

          1              -- it is kind of tough.

          2                   So, one of the first things I did

          3              was go down and look at the space

          4              that we are supposed to move to and

          5              just to be candid, again I'm not a

          6              spender, but I was horrified.  It is

          7              just filthy and too small and I do

          8              have some photos here.  These photos

          9              don't do justice to it, but I asked

         10              Kurt Reeson to just bring some of

         11              these.  Actually, they do, do some

         12              justice and I just would like for you

         13              to look at some of these showing what

         14              the carpet looks like and this kind

         15              of thing.  

         16                   Joe Deutsch went down and I

         17              understand his motivation was to keep

         18              this thing as minimal as possible,

         19              the idea, of course, that we don't

         20              want to spend a bunch of money if the

         21              Legislature should decide to dissolve

         22              the office, but I see us as having

         23              two issues here.

         24                   One is the size of the space, in my

         25              opinion, is just flat not adequate, if













                                                                       49

          1              this is going to be an operating entity,

          2              the way Joe had it set up and two is the

          3              condition of the space.  For a few --

          4              well, actually, about five thousand

          5              dollars, we could make it look nice and   

          6              I think do a world of good for the

          7              employees that are there and I really

          8              think that is a reasonable price, but    

          9              he has executed a lease to keep three

         10              thousand -- it is actually twenty-six

         11              hundred square feet and it is net   

         12              usable.  It is quite a bit less than   

         13              that for the dozen or so employees in  

         14              the office down on the third floor.

         15                   They split the leases.  The lease

         16              is such that it could be cancelled   

         17              on ninety days notice if the

         18              organization were to close down and

         19              this is on the third floor and that

         20              is the space that I am passing the

         21              pictures around.  It is just dirty.

         22                   He, in order to execute the

         23              lease, waived any options about build

         24              out or clean up or anything else and

         25              the landlord agreed to that and that













                                                                       50

          1              is part of why we got the termination

          2              provision -- favorable termination

          3              provision.

          4                   Splitting up the office space

          5              that PIAL has, there is a lot of

          6              extra space and one of them is a

          7              suite on the second floor that

          8              Citizens is going to move out of,  

          9              but they were going to devolve it

         10              back to the landlord, if that's a

         11              good word, after the move takes place 

         12              and it is sixteen hundred square  

         13              feet and my proposal is really two

         14              things.  

         15                   One, if this is going to operate --

         16              and I -- you know, that is obviously not

         17              my decision, but if you are going to

         18              operate, you are going to have to have

         19              additional square footage, just have to. 

         20              It is not optional and if we let that

         21              suite go, there may not be square footage

         22              available in that office.  They are liable

         23              to lease it.

         24                   The second floor space is very

         25              clean and very nice and Citizens is













                                                                       51

          1              using it, now.  The carpet was redone

          2              two or three years ago and move right

          3              in.  

          4                   Our current lease that has   

          5              been executed is forty-six hundred  

          6              a month for the three thousand   

          7              feet.  This would add -- and I   

          8              have met with the landlord.  This

          9              would add an additional twenty-six

         10              hundred dollars.  So, it would go

         11              from forty-six hundred to seventy-two

         12              hundred a month, but it would add

         13              sixteen hundred square feet of

         14              immediately usable space and she

         15              agrees to the same ninety day

         16              termination provision, adding it on. 

         17              A.J. insisted on that. 

         18                   So, an additional twenty-six

         19              hundred dollars a month for -- you

         20              know, if the organization were to

         21              shut down for ninety days or

         22              whatever, it would guaranty us the

         23              space we need going forward and it

         24              would also give us something useful

         25              right away.













                                                                       52

          1                   That, to me, is just something

          2              that has to be done.  There's not

          3              even storage space available.  This

          4              three thousand feet is for twelve

          5              employees including all of the files. 

          6              You know, they have a plotter machine

          7              that is -- it is literally six feet

          8              long and about three feet deep.  That

          9              is like adding an employee in terms

         10              of space.

         11                   So, the way it is situated now,

         12              without that added space, you could put

         13              those people in there, but it is going to

         14              be like they are working in the file room

         15              and I think you kind of get what you

         16              expect out of folks when you do that to

         17              them.

         18                   For the third floor space, the clean

         19              up, and by this I mean some new carpet,

         20              not only the whole space, but two-thirds

         21              of the new carpet and a fresh coat of

         22              paint, generally speaking, through it,

         23              fifteen hundred and seventy-five dollars

         24              for the paint, thirty-five hundred for the

         25              carpet.  So -- and that would have to come













                                                                       53

          1              out of our pocket, because they negotiated

          2              the lease.  

          3                   I have four of these.  This is

          4              the rental and here is the build out. 

          5              I have plenty of these.

          6          MR. COOK:

          7                   When is the separation?  We still

          8              don't have an exact date.

          9          MR. HERBERT:

         10                   March 31st.

         11          MR. MOORMAN:

         12                   We are aiming for March 31st to

         13              actually do the move.  

         14                   They are already starting to do

         15              the communications work in the suite

         16              and set up things.  

         17          MR. COOK:

         18                   So, we have two proposals.  The  

         19              first proposal was the one that we are

         20              under lease that we do some improvements

         21              of about five thousand dollars?

         22          MR. MOORMAN:

         23                   Yes.  It is really more in the nature

         24              of clean up.  It is not even any build out

         25              or doors or things that we might do later













                                                                       54

          1              and if it is viable.

          2          MR. O'BRIEN:

          3                   I have a question.  Could they

          4              operate on two floors?

          5          MR. MOORMAN:

          6                   Yes.

          7          MR. HERBERT:

          8                   They do, now.

          9          MR. MOORMAN:

         10                   In fact -- 

         11          MR. O'BRIEN:

         12                   Well, I know they do, but I

         13              didn't know if PIAL could operate on

         14              two floors.

         15          MR. O'CONNOR:

         16                   So, we would be on the second

         17              floor?

         18          MR. MOORMAN:

         19                   The second floor and the second

         20              floor space has an actual -- 

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   What floor are we going to?

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   Third is the one that is presently

         25              open.  The second floor actually has a













                                                                       55

          1              natural reception area, too, which might

          2              serve as a front door.  There are natural

          3              breaks within the organization that would

          4              work.

          5          MR. COOK:

          6                   Are there two separate --

          7          MR. HERBERT:

          8                   Two separate leases?

          9          MR. COOK:

         10                   Two separate motions.

         11          MR. HERBERT:

         12                   Yes.

         13          MR. COOK:

         14                   The first one is we are in a

         15              lease now on the third floor.  We

         16              have seen the pictures.  I think we

         17              need to get a motion to go ahead and

         18              start the work on that office,

         19              getting the paint and the carpet.  

         20                   So, can I get a motion to go

         21              ahead and start that process?

         22          MR. O'BRIEN:

         23                   I'll make that motion.

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Ed.













                                                                       56

          1                   Second?

          2          MR. LEPINE:

          3                   I'll second.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   Anybody opposed?

          6                   (No response.)

          7          MR. COOK:

          8                   All right.  We will start.  So,

          9              go ahead and -- 

         10          MR. MOORMAN:

         11                   He said he could have that done

         12              in a couple of weeks, the contractor.

         13                   Folks, just that right there is

         14              going to send a message to these

         15              employees that is going to be worth

         16              five times what you spend.  I promise

         17              you.

         18          MR. HERBERT:

         19                   Bob, did we do any shopping of

         20              the contractor or is this mandated by

         21              the building to use one person?

         22          MR. MOORMAN:

         23                   It is not mandated.  We could shop

         24              contractors.  We would have to get all of

         25              the insurance certificates and that kind













                                                                       57

          1              of thing.  

          2                   This is the contractor that does work

          3              for the landlord, the only bid I got

          4              yesterday afternoon.  I think it is

          5              reasonable.  It is about five dollars a

          6              foot for paint and carpet.

          7          MR. DREHER:

          8                   Any other changes that need to be

          9              made or additions, threshold (phonetic) or

         10              anything like that?

         11          MR. MOORMAN:

         12                   There will be.  They have doors

         13              in the same places and switches, but

         14              those are things I believe we can do

         15              later as we get -- rather than spend

         16              the money, now.  If the organization

         17              is viable, then we do a little better

         18              space planning and do those things. 

         19              Even that would not be extremely

         20              expensive.

         21                   For example, part of the third

         22              floor space is an office that doesn't

         23              open into the suite.  It only opens

         24              outside into the hall and is not

         25              connected.  We would want to put a













                                                                       58

          1              door there at some point, but for the

          2              time being, we can use it for an

          3              office and it has been cleaned up and

          4              it is in perfect shape.

          5                   So, I appreciate your asking  

          6              and I just think we can wait and do

          7              that later and -- without a major

          8              disruption.

          9          MR. COOK:

         10                   So, our next piece of business

         11              is, A.J., the new lease.

         12          MR. MOORMAN:

         13                   Yes, the second space.  She did

         14              assure me that we --

         15          MR. HERBERT:

         16                   The same back door.

         17          MR. MOORMAN:

         18                   -- was the same.  

         19                   So, it is an additional -- it is

         20              that additional space on the second

         21              floor.  Because this has come up

         22              relatively quickly -- if we would

         23              have had more time, I would have

         24              shown you where we wanted to put

         25              people and how we wanted to arrange













                                                                       59

          1              it.  We have some ideas, but we

          2              didn't want to spend a lot of time on

          3              that until we have the sense of the

          4              Board on it, but -- 

          5          MR. LEPINE:

          6                   What are you going to do for

          7              functions?

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   My understanding is that the

         10              furnishings are generally following the

         11              employees.

         12          MR. HERBERT:

         13                   Yes.

         14          MR. MOORMAN:

         15                   So, we should have -- 

         16          MR. LEPINE:

         17                   Enough.

         18          MR. MOORMAN:

         19                   -- most of what we need.

         20                   Now, my -- we are going to have

         21              other things to talk about.  For

         22              example, we are not going to have a

         23              postage machine.  We will not have

         24              things like that that we are going to

         25              deal with, but pretty much file













                                                                       60

          1              cabinets and furnishings, we are led

          2              to believe will go with the

          3              employees.  So, that is part of the 

          4              -- we will have to spend some money

          5              to move some cubicles and re-set up

          6              those and those kinds of things.

          7          MR. COOK:

          8                   Could I make a suggestion?  Since

          9              Citizens is not going to move out, we will

         10              meet before March 31st.  If we can maybe

         11              start the process of putting the lease

         12              together and having some plans of what it

         13              will look like before we vote on it or do

         14              we have to move on it before that?

         15          MR. MOORMAN:

         16                   Yes.  She is putting it on the

         17              market right now or getting ready to,

         18              but Citizens won't be moving out

         19              right away.  I'm not sure exactly --

         20          MR. HERBERT:

         21                   If there is a ninety day out, I don't

         22              have a big concern about adding additional

         23              lease space --

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   She -- I specifically requested 













                                                                       61

          1              -- here is the lease.

          2          MR. HERBERT:

          3                   -- because, even if the

          4              Legislature does decide to abolish

          5              PIAL, that is not going to happen

          6              overnight.  There will be a period of

          7              time where there's got to be

          8              sufficient resources for people to

          9              operate while it winds down.

         10          MR. MOORMAN:

         11                   Well, this particular spot, if we

         12              were to move in, and then, shut down

         13              and vacate it, it will be ready to

         14              rent.  It won't be -- we are not

         15              going to do any build out or anything

         16              in there.  It is -- it will be

         17              something that -- I know in Texas you

         18              can't -- you know, if you re-lease

         19              the space, you can't ding the prior

         20              tenant more than what you actually

         21              lost on the deal.

         22                   So, I don't know if that is the

         23              case here in Louisiana, but this is

         24              space that would lease fairly

         25              quickly, I think.  I don't think













                                                                       62

          1              there is any other space available in

          2              the building other than little

          3              pieces.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   Well, I am going to need a motion

          6              from the Board to go ahead and  

          7              lease the second floor space.    

          8              That would give us seventy-two

          9              hundred -- I'm sorry, forty-six

         10              hundred square feet at seventy-two

         11              hundred dollars a month for both

         12              locations.

         13          MR. GOURGUES:

         14                   Motion.

         15          MR. GOLDBERG:

         16                   Second.

         17          MR. COOK:

         18                   Anybody opposed to that?

         19                   (No response.)

         20          MR. COOK:

         21                   All right.  We have approved

         22              that.

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   Thank you very much.  

         25                   Executive Director expense













                                                                       63

          1              reimbursement, I'm not sure what  

          2              that --

          3          MR. HERBERT:

          4                   There was an issue with the

          5              Legislative Auditor that expenses of the

          6              prior Executive Director were not -- did

          7              not go through a formalized system.  So, a

          8              system was implemented that your expenses

          9              would go to Dennis --

         10          MR. COOK:

         11                   And Joe.

         12          MR. HERBERT:

         13                   -- and Joe would sign off on them,

         14              and then, a copy would be provided to  

         15              the Board for informational purposes and

         16              that was just to address that prior

         17              problem.

         18          MR. MOORMAN:

         19                   Again, I do plan to submit my

         20              billing invoices through Dennis   

         21              and be ratified here, I suppose,   

         22              but my expense reimbursements I   

         23              will apply for will be mileage

         24              between New Orleans and Baton Rouge

         25              and back and the occasional take  













                                                                       64

          1              the employees to lunch to talk

          2              business and that kind of thing.   

          3              It will be deminimus.  I won't  

          4              spend the money unless the Board

          5              knows about it ahead of time.

          6                   The employee vehicle lease is not

          7              for me.  The practice has been -- and

          8              that was in your packet, I believe. 

          9              The practice has been that the

         10              inspectors -- field inspectors are

         11              given a car and the company has owned

         12              these vehicles and my understanding

         13              is that they have been trading them

         14              in every sixty thousand miles.  We

         15              will deal with that issue later. 

         16              That seems kind of low to me, but it

         17              is part of the compensation package

         18              for these field inspectors.

         19                   One -- we were short -- my

         20              understanding is, short one car as of

         21              December, say, of this last year and

         22              had one extra field inspector. 

         23              Perhaps, he has been hired, and then,

         24              one was let go, Bubba Gagenheimer

         25              (phonetic) -- or Buddy.













                                                                       65

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   Buddy.

          3          MR. MOORMAN:

          4                   Anyway, he was let go.  His wife,  

          5              by the way, still works right outside my

          6              office and she seems content, happy,

          7              everyone is getting along okay, but when

          8              he was let go, his car was given to the

          9              one that was renting a car, but now we

         10              have hired one to replace Buddy.  He has

         11              been -- he was hired the first of January

         12              to keep the staff at the level it was.

         13                   According to Todd Maddox, the

         14              Pricing Department Manager, he won't

         15              be ready to be live in the field

         16              until April, but he has gone to --

         17              gosh, I'm blank.  Is it Avis or

         18              Hertz?

         19          MR. LEPINE:

         20                   Enterprise.

         21          MR. O'CONNOR:

         22                   Enterprise.

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   Enterprise will rent the car,

         25              rent a Malibu, which is second from













                                                                       66

          1              the smallest, for seven hundred and

          2              thirty-five dollars a month.  We pay

          3              gas, but it is a straight rental.  It

          4              is a month to month.  There is no

          5              contract, no guaranty.

          6                   When they did it before for that

          7              one field inspector for a short

          8              period of time, they gave him a new

          9              car.  I'm not sure that that's a

         10              guaranty, but low mileage cars, to

         11              me, that seems perfect for our

         12              situation.  The whole idea of owning

         13              a fleet of cars compared to this

         14              option of renting seems probably

         15              problematic anyway.

         16                   So, the immediate need is to

         17              authorize the rental on this car for

         18              this field inspector, who is already

         19              on staff, when he is ready to go in

         20              the field, which will be another mont

         21              or so.

         22          MR. O'BRIEN:

         23                   Is there a mileage limitation?

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   There's no mileage limitation --













                                                                       67

          1              I take that back, Ed.  I think it is

          2              three thousand a month.  

          3          MR. O'BRIEN:

          4                   Three thousand and thirty-six

          5              thousand a year.

          6          MR. MOORMAN:

          7                   So, it is well above -- Todd

          8              indicates that they are averaging, I

          9              think, fifteen hundred a month, something

         10              like that.

         11          MR. O'BRIEN:

         12                   They do the maintenance, the oil

         13              change and brakes?

         14          MR. MOORMAN:

         15                   They do the maintenance, I believe,

         16              and all we do is pay the gas.

         17          MR. COOK:

         18                   What about insurance?

         19          MR. MOORMAN:

         20                   You know, I wish I knew the

         21              answer to the insurance, but

         22              certainly we would have to insure

         23              ourselves.

         24          MR, O'BRIEN:

         25                   We would have to insure              













                                                                       68

          1              ourselves.

          2          MR. MOORMAN:

          3                   You know, I just don't know the

          4              answer to that.

          5          MR. LEPINE:

          6                   You said it was a month to month

          7              lease, it is not any longer than that?

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   Yes.  There's no commitment is

         10              the way I understand it.  

         11                   Charles Davidson is our new guy.

         12                   Here, I will pass these around. 

         13              This is the memo from Todd Maddox.

         14          MR. O'CONNOR:

         15                   We have that.

         16          MR. COOK:

         17                   This one is more detailed.

         18          MR. MOORMAN:

         19                   Yes.  He talks about the average

         20              use and so forth.  That is my

         21              understanding.  You know, one way or

         22              another, we have to insure ourselves,

         23              of course, but even at that, it is

         24              perfect for our situation, I think,

         25              and then, I think down the road, if













                                                                       69

          1              it is a viable entity, we visit the

          2              issue about whether to work something

          3              out like that on a permanent basis.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   Could we add a rental car to

          6              that?

          7          MR. O'BRIEN:

          8                   Yes.  We had the last one on

          9              there.

         10          MR. COOK:

         11                   The business auto policy.

         12          MR. O'CONNOR:

         13                   We ought to ask Paul.

         14                   Do we need a motion?

         15          MR. COOK:

         16                   We need a motion to go ahead and

         17              rent this car for our new employee

         18              starting in April.  

         19          MS. PRESTON:

         20                   Didn't we vote on this before for

         21              somebody?

         22          MR. O'CONNOR:

         23                   Yes, we did.

         24          MR. LEPINE:

         25                   We said we would provide him a













                                                                       70

          1              car.

          2          MR. COOK:

          3                   I thought we were buying a car.

          4          MS. PRESTON:

          5                   We were buying a car, but then

          6              there was a suggestion -- I think I

          7              made the suggestion that we rent

          8              until we figure out what is going to

          9              happen with PIAL.

         10          MR. DREHER:

         11                   I think the employee ended up not

         12              needing a car.

         13          MR. O'CONNOR:

         14                   Exactly.  It was mooted and now

         15              they have hired somebody.

         16          MR. COOK:

         17                   Well, I think we were going the

         18              rental route.

         19          MR. MOORMAN:

         20                   Actually, I believe they rented

         21              one for a couple of weeks or a month

         22              or something until the guy was fired,

         23              and then, they have him his car.

         24          MR. COOK:

         25                   Do I have a motion to accept?













                                                                       71

          1          MR. O'CONNOR:

          2                   So moved.

          3          MR. O'BRIEN:

          4                   I'll second.

          5          MR. COOK:

          6                   Second, Ed.

          7                   Anybody opposed?

          8                   (No response.)

          9          MR. COOK:

         10                   All right, Mr. Executive Director,

         11              anything else?

         12          MR. MOORMAN:

         13                   Well, I have something further

         14              down on the Agenda.  

         15          MR. COOK:

         16                   Our next piece of business is

         17              network infrastructure implementation

         18              by ITBD.

         19                   A.J., do you have anything on

         20              that?

         21          MR. HERBERT:

         22                   There should be a status report

         23              for the Board that is included in

         24              your packet.  Let me make sure of

         25              that.  Yes, there is.













                                                                       72

          1                   Basically, I.T. By Design is the

          2              vendor that was hired at the last

          3              meeting to handle the separation of

          4              the technology from PIAL and Citizens

          5              and to get PIAL set up in its new

          6              offices.  So, they are going to be

          7              basically -- right now, PIAL and

          8              Citizens share servers and they are

          9              going to handle the separation of all

         10              of that.  So, Citizens keeps their

         11              data.  PIAL keeps its data.

         12                   You know, they are going to wire

         13              the phones.  They are going to --

         14              then, pursuant to this, PIAL's

         15              servers are now going to be hosted at

         16              a secure center in Baton Rouge that

         17              is hurricane proof and all that other

         18              stuff and where they are now, they

         19              are, you know, in some jeopardy since

         20              they are in Metairie, but it will all

         21              be moved to Baton Rouge in the secure

         22              site.

         23                   So, that is just a status report

         24              from the vendor on what is going on

         25              with that.  That is only for













                                                                       73

          1              informational purposes.  No action on

          2              it is required.  

          3          MR. COOK:

          4                   Now, we have the resolution to

          5              separate from Citizens.

          6          MR. HERBERT:

          7                   Yes.  I am going to --

          8          MR. COOK:

          9                   It is a handout.

         10          MR. HERBERT:

         11                   -- pass this around.

         12                   Over the course of the -- I

         13              guess, the past sixty days or so,

         14              PIAL has been working with Citizens

         15              to separate and we have been working

         16              with vendors, because, for example,

         17              all of the pension was under PIAL. 

         18              There was a million dollar under

         19              funded pension liability that was

         20              fully funded in December of last

         21              year.

         22                   We are moving personnel to

         23              Citizens, but we have got to make

         24              sure that the pension follows them. 

         25              We have got to make sure that the













                                                                       74

          1              401K is done and as we deal with the

          2              vendors in going about splitting up

          3              the benefits issues, the vendors have

          4              been asking for some Board

          5              authorization of splitting the two

          6              entities.

          7                   I know we have talked about it,

          8              but just to have something that we

          9              can always provide for them in the

         10              future, I am asking the Board to

         11              approve this resolution, so, that we

         12              won't have any delays in trying to

         13              complete the separation by March

         14              31st.

         15                   Frankly, it is better for the

         16              employees.  They are tired of all the

         17              insecurity and wondering what is

         18              going to happen and I think it helps

         19              us in order to demonstrate some

         20              certainty and to put a date there

         21              that everyone is working towards.

         22          MR. COOK:

         23                   We are going to need a motion to

         24              accept the resolution and a second

         25              and a roll call vote?













                                                                       75

          1          MR. HERBERT:

          2                   It really doesn't need to be roll

          3              call.

          4          MR. COOK:

          5                   So, do I have a motion to accept

          6              this resolution?

          7          MR. MOORMAN:

          8                   We have John Wortman's passive

          9              agreement on that.  

         10                   Do we need to have him endorse

         11              this formally?

         12          MR. HERBERT:

         13                   They are going to have to do

         14              their own resolution.  I mean, we

         15              agreed to the March 31st date.

         16          MR. GOURGUES:

         17                   Motion.

         18          MR. COOK:

         19                   And a second?

         20          MS. BROOKS:

         21                   Second.

         22          MR. COOK:

         23                   Is anyone opposed to this    

         24              resolution?

         25                   (No response.)













                                                                       76

          1          MR. COOK:

          2                   This will be signed by the

          3              Secretary.

          4          MR. O'CONNOR:

          5                   Who is the Secretary?

          6          MR. HERBERT:

          7                   We will just make it signed by

          8              the Chairman.  

          9          MR. O'CONNOR:

         10                   I don't think we have a Secretary

         11              anymore, do we?

         12          MR. LEPINE:

         13                   Do we need to add Bob's name     

         14              in here since you've got Wortman's

         15              name?

         16          MR. HERBERT:

         17                   Well, we have -- Paragraph 3 has

         18              Bob as the Executive Director.

         19          MR. LEPINE:

         20                   Well, it says -- No. 1 has, "PIAL

         21              shall cooperate with John Wortman,

         22              Executive Director."  Don't we need

         23              to specifically put --

         24          MR. HERBERT:

         25                   I'm not understanding -- 













                                                                       77

          1          MR. LEPINE:

          2                   -- put Bob Moorman's name --

          3          MR. HERBERT:

          4                   All right.  Section 1 --

          5          MR. COOK:

          6                   We are going on to the phone and

          7              the P.O. Box.

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   We have been assigned, I believe,

         10              a new phone number and they are now

         11              operating with two separate phones at

         12              the main switchboard.  

         13                   It is not -- in my opinion, it

         14              would be hard to make an improvement

         15              on this.  I called in there a couple

         16              of weeks ago when I was first coming

         17              over and couldn't figure out how to

         18              get through to anybody and this

         19              morning John Wortman announced that

         20              they had solve that problem and put

         21              in a new directory system for

         22              Citizens.  So, we will have the same

         23              for us, a look up system on the last

         24              name.

         25                   Now, we are going to have some













                                                                       78

          1              issues on the phone system that I'm

          2              not up to speed on yet, but, you

          3              know, they apparently have a very

          4              expensive Cisco system there now and

          5              we are certainly not going to go out

          6              and spend a zillion dollars on a

          7              phone system for a dozen folks.  So,

          8              I think I will be able to speak to

          9              that a little bit better next time,

         10              but we do have a phone number.  

         11                   We need a post office box and  

         12              it needs to have a New Orleans

         13              address and I have just -- I just got

         14              an E-mail message that one has come

         15              open at the same station we have been

         16              using, which would be a hundred and

         17              fifty bucks for six months and it is

         18              Loyola, I believe.  It just came in. 

         19              We had just found -- the only one we

         20              could get was Carrollton, but I got

         21              an E-mail that there is one at

         22              Loyola, eleven by eleven post office

         23              box and we will have our statutory

         24              New Orleans address.

         25                   But, just to give you an idea of













                                                                       79

          1              the little issues, it is like running

          2              a small business.  Where the current

          3              situation has a man going to the post

          4              office everyday in the company van,

          5              we are not going to have that.  So,

          6              we are going to have to have somebody

          7              dropping by the Post Office to pick

          8              up the mail.  

          9                   You know, you always have to be

         10              careful about the insurance issues on

         11              that.

         12          MR. HENRY:

         13                   May I ask a question?  The reason

         14              is the domicile issue?

         15          MR. HERBERT:

         16                   Yes.

         17          MR. HENRY:

         18                   If we could fix that --

         19          MR. HERBERT:

         20                   In the Legislative Session.

         21          MR. HENRY:

         22                   -- what we propose to do in this

         23              Session, if that helps you -- and I

         24              know you have to deal with it until

         25              then, but that should have been fixed













                                                                       80

          1              already.  The folks didn't want it

          2              fixed before and we didn't fix it. 

          3              If you don't have any problem with

          4              that, we are going to fix that during

          5              this Session.

          6          MR. MOORMAN:

          7                   I think we can get a box within a  

          8              few blocks of the office, if I'm not

          9              mistaken, and certainly have some of the

         10              mail come to the office, but that would

         11              help.

         12          MR. HENRY:

         13                   That doesn't help you right now,

         14              but I just didn't want to -- 

         15          MR. O'BRIEN:

         16                   Have you looked at a courier service?

         17          MR. MOORMAN:

         18                   No, I haven't.

         19          MR. O'BRIEN:

         20                   Why don't you look at a private

         21              courier service and make sure they

         22              have insurance.

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   See if they do that everyday and

         25              that is a good thought.













                                                                       81

          1          MR. O'BRIEN:

          2                   Yes.  That would save the problem

          3              of an employee out of the office

          4              worried about traffic and accidents.

          5          MR. MOORMAN:

          6                   We have a couple of guys,

          7              department heads, you know, that we

          8              could have do that in their company

          9              cars.

         10          MR. O'BRIEN:

         11                   That's still -- you may find a

         12              courier service would be --

         13          MR. MOORMAN:

         14                   Yes.

         15          MR. O'BRIEN:

         16                   -- would solve a whole lot of

         17              problems.

         18          MR. MOORMAN:

         19                   The idea of running a business

         20              and not getting the mail everyday --

         21          MR. O'BRIEN:

         22                   Correct.

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   -- is not the way to do it.

         25                   Thank you for that.













                                                                       82

          1          MR. O'BRIEN:

          2                   Just for your information.

          3                   Zip code 7123 -- 0123 is where I

          4              live in Harahan, but if you enter New

          5              Orleans, Louisiana, 70123, it goes to

          6              the Harahan station.  It is the trick

          7              in the trade, but they rate my car

          8              insurance based on New Orleans.

          9          MR. HENRY:

         10                   They should if they write it at

         11              all.

         12          MR. O'CONNOR:

         13                   I don't know why they write it.

         14          MR. O'BRIEN:

         15                   I should be with State Farm, but

         16              I'm not.

         17          MR. O'CONNOR:

         18                   I don't know why they write it.

         19          MR. O'BRIEN:

         20                   What?

         21          MR. O'CONNOR:

         22                   I don't know why they write it.

         23          MR. O'BRIEN:

         24                   I haven't had an accident in a

         25              year -- well, ten months.













                                                                       83

          1          MR. MOORMAN:

          2                   Other transition issues, as I

          3              say, are going to come up.  Looking

          4              at -- I understand we are sending out

          5              twelve hundred or so pieces of mail

          6              each month, various things.  We are

          7              not going to have a postage machine

          8              and the first blush on that is four

          9              hundred a month for a sixty-three

         10              month minimum lease kind of thing,

         11              but then now we are hearing that

         12              Pitney-Bowes has a little higher rate

         13              for a shorter term lease, it is kind

         14              of a close call in there.

         15                   The suggestion was made that

         16              maybe we could get Citizens to do our

         17              mailings for us and I'm thinking that

         18              is not a good idea once we are

         19              separated.  So, that is just is an

         20              example of another, you know, little

         21              issue.  There are going to be a lot

         22              of these little things when you

         23              basically start a new business that

         24              we will have to look at.

         25                   Certainly, for the time being, we













                                                                       84

          1              can get a roll of stamps.

          2          MR. O'BRIEN:

          3                   Another idea, either go online or

          4              call the Postal Service and see if

          5              they will pick up your mail and run

          6              it through the machine for you for a

          7              service charge.

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   The Postal Service will do that?

         10          MR. O'BRIEN:

         11                   At one time, they did.  I don't know

         12              if they still do.

         13          MR. HENRY:

         14                   Tell them you know Ed O'Brien.

         15          MR. O'BRIEN:

         16                   That will make sure they won't do

         17              it.  I would use Mr. E.L. Henry on

         18              that.

         19                   You are more of a postal guy than

         20              I am. 

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   You have our new P.O. Box you

         23              said?

         24          MR. MOORMAN:

         25                   No.  With the Board's approval,













                                                                       85

          1              we will contract for a new P.O. Box

          2              and I guess it will be in the station

          3              where we've been we can place the

          4              bid, and then, it would be a hundred

          5              and fifty dollars for six months.

          6          MR. COOK:

          7                   We talked about seeing if we

          8              could do it in Jefferson or by

          9              statute, does it have to be New

         10              Orleans?

         11          MR. HERBERT:

         12                   By statute, it is supposed to be

         13              domiciled in New Orleans and they are

         14              domiciled in Metairie.  So, the post

         15              office box is kept there as a result

         16              of that issue.  What Bubba has raised

         17              is that as we go about making some of

         18              the technical amendments to PIAL

         19              legislation, that's one where we can

         20              fix it.

         21          MR. MOORMAN:

         22                   In the meantime, we will have to

         23              get that in New Orleans, you know,

         24              but there again, we are talking

         25              stationery, business cards, all kinds













                                                                       86

          1              of things, every time you do these

          2              kinds of things.  We will try to keep

          3              that to a minimum.  

          4          MR. HERBERT:

          5                   Well, don't -- can't you just put

          6              the physical address on business

          7              cards?

          8          MR. MOORMAN:

          9                   I suppose we can.

         10          MR. LEPINE:

         11                   Then, they will deliver to   

         12              that physical address.  It won't   

         13              go to the post office box.  You  

         14              would defeat the purpose if you do

         15              that if they are mailing you

         16              something.

         17          MR. MOORMAN:

         18                   We will make a decision which

         19              suite we are going to use for our

         20              main address.

         21          MR. COOK:

         22                   Anything else?

         23          MR. MOORMAN:

         24                   That's all.

         25                   I will say I -- as I have talked













                                                                       87

          1              to these folks, Todd Maddox, Pricing

          2              Department, Blane Robbe (phonetic),

          3              who is the Public Protection Fire

          4              Rating side, they really have some

          5              definite ideas about what can be done

          6              going forward either to produce

          7              revenues or just to improve the

          8              service and they also are thinking in

          9              terms of staff needs and if it

         10              continues as a viable entity, there

         11              will have to be some additional staff

         12              over the next, you know, several

         13              months or year, it looks like, in

         14              order to kind of pick up the slack

         15              that is -- well, they have been

         16              getting a little bit behind.

         17                   Some very interesting things have

         18              come out, but I think one thing that

         19              became clear to me this morning in

         20              the House Insurance Committee meeting

         21              is that one of the issues I need to

         22              address is the consistency and

         23              predictability of the rating system

         24              and even application and kind of

         25              quality control on that.













                                                                       88

          1                   My sense is that they are really

          2              on top of this.  The average length